Birch, are you an authorized representative of the P&F party, or do you just figure there is nobody going to complain cause there are only two other members in California?

Actually I am the Chairperson fro the Placer County Peace & Freedom Party. We came in third this election, ahead of any other third party. We have a long way to go, but we're growing.

Ridiculous assumptions. Is there no crime or act of violence that the "Palestinians" commit against Israelis that could be the reason for Israel's legitimate responses? Israel has the absolute right to defend its citizens against the evil terrorism of the Arab Islamists. I think she has been too easy on them. She should bomb the hell out of Gaza. Then the Arabs might get the message to stop their thousands and thousands of missle and mortar attacks. The Palestinian Arabs are the consummate evil in the world today.

joelsk44039, well now that is a pretty simplistic view. "Bomb the hell out of Gaza". What about the Arab Christians and the Arab Jews that might be living there? and... I might suggest that all of the Palestinian people are not responsible for "evil terrorism" to which you assign blame. Ah yes, bomb the hell out of 'em...the perfect answer. And that is the reason why I would feel so safe traveling just about anywhere in the world today. Probably just not India.

joelsk44039: They already have "bombed the hell out of Gaza". And the Palestinian people have "...the absolute right to defend its citizens against the evil" occupation of their homeland. Making outrageous claims, like your last two statements, do nothing to make your argument, but rather show what a fool you are...

BirchBricker,

The two major wars that Israel has fought in 1968 and in the early 70's, Israel was attacked by Egypt and by Syria. Israel was NOT the aggressor. They did annex land from each of those countries (spoils of war) to create a buffer zone from future attacks from those countries.

Israel is our only true friend in the region, and as such deserves our support. Does that mean they do our bidding 100% of the time? No, they are a sovereign country and have been recognized by the U.N since 1948. They have an agenda of peace through strength and project that strength throughout the region, otherwise they would have been swallowed up years ago by their neighbors.

Robert Capp

Birch, regardless of how Israel was formed it became a country in the late 1940s. Since then they have been attacked a number of times, each time they have been able to defeat a much larger foe(s). They occupied the territories won during those acts of aggression against their country and they act as a buffer.

How would you feel if the Canadians and Mexicans invaded us every so many years, if they were the aggressors simply because they considered us their land? Do you think we would have the right to fight back, defeat and occupy whatever we thought nesessary to prevent or at the very least decrease the possibility of another war.

Sorry my friend but this smell of anti semitism to me, now unlike a lot of posters, I don't consider or portray myself as an expert on this subject, just using a little common sense.

The Israelis have almost always been the aggressor. It's true that the Palestinians have retaliated. When a people are overwhelmed with force, they have to resort to guerrilla tactics, like America did with the English in the Revolutionary War. Israel has violated every treaty they ever signed. Rabin was assassinated by religious extremist Zionists because he wanted to restore Israel & Palestine to it's legal arrangement. Just because someone criticizes Israel doesn't make them "anti semitic". Besides, Judaism is a religion, not a race . Arabs are Semites too.

I'm curious Birch, do you support Israel's right to exist? Hamas (which you appear to support) does not want Palestinians and Israel to peacefully coexist within the 1968 borders. They want Israel to be destroyed. Yet, you appear to think this is okay, while you are quick to condemn Israel which by and large has no desire to wipe Palestinians off the map. Yes, an Israeli killed Rabin, but Rabin was put in power by popular vote, and removed from power by a tiny minority. I know many Israelis, and none of them have thought of Rabin's assassination as anything less than a tragedy.

On a more basic level, I have walked through Tel Aviv on many occasions, feeling safer than I would walking through San Francisco. I wouldn't feel the same in Gaza and I certainly didn't feel the same walking through East Jerusalem. As imperfect as Israel is, I think they hold the high ground regarding moral and civilized behavior among their neighbors in the Middle East, and some nasty behavior on their part is a necessary part of survival. I don't share those feelings regarding the people that were dancing in the streets on 9/11.

Robert Capp: It would seem we do Israel's bidding.

auburntom: Palestine & Israel have a right to coexist. Of course Tel Aviv is safe, the secret police squash any freedom of thought or expression. I'd rather live in a free country (such as you find San Francisco in) than an opressive regime (such as you find Tel Aviv in) anyday.

Oppressive, I meant to spell it oppressive. Oops.

Mr. Bricker,

I believe that Israel does our bidding much more often than the opposite.

Robert Capp

BirchBicker, wow. You make me want to covert to Judaism.

I don't think anyone would complain if you followed your dreams to San Francisco.

Sorry, I meant "convert".

That's alright. I hate it when I misspell something on here. Kinda detracts from any argument I might have.

Birch, Tel Aviv is safe because their secret police squash freedom of thought and expression? Somehow I get the impression you have never been there.

First of all, they have gay pride parades, demonstrations against the government, authors that criticize the religious establishment, bikini clad women on the beaches. Second of all, how does squashing free thought make a city safe?

It's not San Francisco, but then neither is Auburn, and I like Auburn just fine. Try criticizing the government or their religion in Gaza, the West Bank, Jordan, Syria, and see how long it takes before you are dead or in prison. Try a gay pride parade in Egypt, where men are imprisoned simply for being gay in secret. Israel doesn't treat Arabs as well as it should, but many Arabs in Israel proper have more rights than Arabs in neighboring areas. Muslims in Israel are elected to public office.

I find it interesting how you can condemn Israel while defending Hamas, which kills its political opponents that are Muslims, murders civilians that are Jews, as Palestinians flee INTO Israel to escape Hamas. You talk about suppressioun of freedom of expression while ignoring a regime in the West Bank and Gaza that is attempting to implement Shari'a law forcing women to cover their bodies. I don't know you and I wouldn't call you anti-semetic, but I've got to wonder what the hell your motivation is. Perhaps it's more of a fashion statement than any kind of ideology.

Actually I have been to Israel... and Syria... and Lebanon. Twice. Have you? It is really rather stupid to defend myself & would much rather stick to the issues.

I have NOT ONCE defended Hamas or Shari'a law. I have expressed that I believe that the Palestinian people should have the same inalienable rights as the people of Israel. I have also said that the two states need to coexist.

I am NOT anti Israel. I AM opposed to Zionism, illegal settlements, & some of the bigoted, nazi-esque members of the Israeli government.

Discrimination based on religious preference is ALWAYS wrong. Remember: Jesus was a Palestinian that spoke a variation of Arabic (Aramaic) & NOT Hebrew.

Birch, I'm surprised that you think free thought and expression is suppressed in Israel if you've been there twice. I've been there three times on business and I work with Israelis frequently. I have not been to Syria or Lebanon unless you count the Golan Heights. :) I have worked with many Arabs from the region on business.

If this last message from you was all I had seen from you, I'd think we had similar thoughts on the subject. I am also against illegal settlements. Although there is a radical Zionist element in Israel, probably with more sway than they should have, my sense from most Israelis is that they simply feel threatened by the realities of going back to the 1967 borders. I think most Israelis would agree to it if they felt that Arabs would not simply use those borders as a position of strength to attack them again. I don't know how many Palestinians are against compromise, but I do know that their elected leadership IS against compromise.

While Israel is far from perfect, I have a hard time singling them out for punishment among a sea of people behaving very badly.

Auburntom: I tend to get a bit excited about the whole Israel-Palestine issue. I do feel that they need to coexist. One should not dominate the other. Too much bad blood over the years. I understand Israel's fear about returning to the 1967 borders, but for the sake of a little peace- they need to compromise. Tel Aviv is probably more progressive than any other city in the Middle East. It's Jerusalem & the border areas that have all the tension & bigotry, obviously.

It's always the radicals that make the most noise & get all the attention. Most Israeli's & Palestinians are just plain tired of the whole thing.

I've always felt that the Arab countries haven't helped the Palestinians at all. They seem to delight in having them be screwed over so they can prove how monstrous Israel is. Helping fund Hamas isn't what Palestine needs. They need infrastructure & basic necessities. Their current blockade by Israel is just awful.

A spade needs to be called a spade. People need to be able to criticise Israel without being called antsemitic.

Thanks for the comment.

BB:

Your failure to condemn the plethora of sub human scum in Palestine who drool over their killing of Jews on a daily basis is alarming. Without question, these individuals lob rockets into Israel on a daily basis hoping to score a kill on a child. The authorities running Palestine do nothing but cheer. The Jews are forced to defend themselves against the onslaught of these deadly vermin. Please do not start your response to my post by claiming Israel is stealing land, etc. What property rights may be involved will never justify the indiscriminate killing of Jews. The vermin in Palestine will never be satisfied until all Jews are killed. The fact that you are silent on this issue frightens me.

BB:

Why have the Jews, in such a short period of time, transformed their portion of the desert into an oasis yet the Palestinian people have no accomplishment. I suppose you will blame the Jews for the lack of accomplishment.

Israel has been an oasis for a long time, even when it was Palestine. It has long been home to Jews, Christians & Muslims. The native Palestinians have been pushed out to desert lands & their Arab brothers haven't helped them out very much. Neither side is innocent & it's absurd to believe that the Israeli's are not partially to blame. On a daily basis Zionist settlers are infringing on already disputed land, furthering confrontation. On a daily basis Palestinians are increasingly frustrated with their hopeless situation which causes some of them to retreat further back into more & more extreme forms of Islam. Each side fails to understand the others plight. The Jewish people seeing nothing but crazed Palestinians desperate to regain a foothold - Palestinians see nothing but oppressive masters. BOTH sides of every day people are sick & tired of the fighting. The extremists, on both sides, are making all the news & noise. Something has to give. This can not keep going the way that it is. ALL people need, want & deseve the same basic human rights= food, shelter, safety, freedom & liberty. Let's not say one side is superior to another, please.

Any one who drops to their knees three times a day and faces Mecca to pray...is insane...period. That also goes for the Jewish people who are really too intelligent to believe the myths of their religion. This is exactly why all these religious practices need to go away....quickly... before they kill us all in a senseless conflict based on and over a bad fable. The Truth is not rocket science.....

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=mohammed+islam+teaching+fraud+scroll+discovery&spell=1

obiewan: Muslims pray FIVE tomes a day. Why don't you use "the force" to make religion go away? Stick to what you know, kid... like wookies & fortune tellers.

Obewan,

Wow! Religiaphobia? I think I may have made up a new word. I guess asking for you to respect one's beliefs would be too much. Why blame all of the killings/conflicts on religio, just place it squarely on the responsible party. Man is responsible for his actions, not a religion. That is the truth and "The Truth is not rocket science...."

Sincerely,

Robert Capp

That's right. Mans biggest atrocities have had nothing to do with religion. Consider Hiroshima/Nagasaki... Nazi Germany... or Stalin. These were secular problems. Religious wars pale in comparison.

Robert,

Nice word and there is no phobia here. I am deeply and by far more spiritual than most and understand the true power of the meaning of the word. It is the control mechanisms and warped perceptions of these zealots that give these men the justification for their actions... in the name and belief of something or someone and or an ideology that should not exist and that was made up. These ideas were purely made up to control those who would believe in them and that then allowed the fable and myth to grow via true continual brainwashing created in order.. to control the individual and group behaviors, their resources and their civilizations.

In a time of uneducated people these types of myths and fables may have had some benefit for the masters behind the scenes trying to bring some sanity to the animal instinctual behavior of the human being...however now more than ever each of our primal animal instinctual traits are being stimulated in such a way that it is making many people very rich via targeted marketing practices. As we are suppose to be more educated in todays day and age.... many still cling on to and dwell in these past myths on a daily basis and lean on the crutch of religion to give them a centering point to help them deal with the insanity they see around them. All along they do not realize that it is actually they.... that are insane. If I were to say that I saw an Alien and his craft landed in my backyard.....and I regularly communicated with them...you would think me insane...therefore my point. We are all insane to a certain degree...and it is the way these belief systems unfold and how they are manipulated that determines the true potential damage they can cause in the future and have caused in the past.

Religion is not a bad practice until it influences the individual or group as a collective to act out physical actions based on a false belief system... that hurts others in the name and or cause of the religions beliefs. Myths can be used to move entire nations and civilizations for a purpose that is not warranted and that was entirely based on lies by the masters behind the scenes knowing the true power of the myth. While many people die in these religious conflicts.... others make great deals of money and receive tremendous power over the blood of the innocent true believers of the myth.

The true spirituality exists within each of us and as a collective and until we understand the power within...many will continue look towards a myth and or something else to fill the void...that they do not understand and have actually been taught by the teachers.... to not understand.

obewan: A person ceases to be spiritual when he actually professes to be "more spiritual than most". Kind of like if you told me how humble you are. The second it leaves your lips... it ceases to be true. Besides, you're the same guy who said that Obama is the anti Christ because Nostradamus said so. Talk about mythology. Are you serious, or are you actually speaking as Obi Wan Kenobi? If you are pretending, than your views are comical. If you're being yourself, your views & "spirituality" are insipid.

Birch,

You have a great deal to learn about spirituality it seems...and it was not my words that were written about Obama...they were only shared.

Open minds are often closed based on the false impressions they receive and believe to be true. Comedy does the heart good.....

... Yes it does. Thank you for making me laugh.

May the force be with you....

BB:

The Jews have given. The Palestinians, as predicted, were not satisfied. Clearly, they never will be until all Jews are dead. This is a common hope in the middle east. If you were king of the world, what you have the Jews do? Do want them to leave the area? Clearly the Jews and the Palestinians cannot live the same place together. This is not the Jews fault. Jews do not kill for the sake of hate; that is what Palestinians are known for.

joelsk44039 - The same things were said about Jesus' movement following his execution as a Palestinian insurgent by the Roman coalition government occupying Gaza.

Thank you again for your thoughtful analysis and insightful recommendations for improving American foreign policy in the middle east.

richthink: The Jews have taken. Israel claims that their tribal God promised them the lands that were already settled which includes all the territory of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and including Iraq. It wasn't the first time their deity pulled such a stunt.

Israel supports its claim to Palestinian Muslim and Christian lands by saying that the Hebrew God gave it to the Jews (but forgot to register the deed). They argue with a straight face that this gives them the right to take land away from whoever has lived on the land during the two thousand or so intervening years.

Nor can the Jews claim they were first people dwelling within the "Promised Land." The Bible clearly records dozens of Jewish invasions and genocides in the region. The Palestinians are descended from the same peoples who lived in the area before the Jewish conquests. If the claim that whoever lived on the land first is valid, then the Palestinians should have the primacy because their ancestors lived on it long before ancient Judea even existed and certainly before the Balfour Agreement of 1917.

Nicely said, Skeptic.

Be careful though... some people don't like to be confused with the facts.

Great that your posting this petition but why without a link so that people can actually sign?

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/IJAN_Brockmann_BDS/index.html

Because they want money to sign it & you'd be better off telling Boxer & Feinstein yourself. Don't forget Joe Biden at http://biden.senate.gov/services/contact/ .

Skeptic

It sounds like you are advocating that Israel return land it has taken during the last 50 years. Following your argument, any country that takes land by adverse possession should return such. Do I have it right?

richthink: Eretz Ysrael must honor its signed commitment to the Oslo Accords, especially Annex 2., It should honor the inalienable and basic human right of Palestinian return to lands from which they were dispossessed in 1948 and 1967. L’shana ha’ba-ah b’Yerushalayim.